Wednesday, March 14, 2007
No Apology, From a True Marine
Hello Everyone,
At the moment, I am ashamed toward the behavior of our congressional leaders, but still respectful of their position and authority; just as General Pace is. General Pace appears to be an honorable Marine. Currently, he is serving as the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff for the armed forces, and is taking a lot of heat for making a proper and valid statement. If you have never observed a true Marine in action, just watch this man. General Pace is fighting like a true warrior. The best characteristic of a warrior is "Moral fortitude." If General Pace can't stand-up to friendly foes for being right, how can we expect him to stand-up to unfriendly foes as the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff. You gooooooooooo General!!!!!!!
No Apology From Gen. Pace for Gay Stance
- Pentagon's top general should not have voiced personal view homosexuality is
immoral
-- Should have stated support for military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy
in an interview that has drawn criticism from lawmakers and gay-rights
groups
- Written statement by Gen. Peter Pace did not apologize for stance on
homosexuality
- Pace likened homosexual acts to adultery and said military should not condone it
-- By allowing gays to serve openly in armed forces
- Pace issued statement acknowledging Defense Department's "don't ask, don't tell"
policy on gays is a sensitive subject
-- Should have focused on my support of policy and less on personal moral views
- Defense Secretary Robert Gates declined to answer a question on his opinion of
policy
-- Made a mild rebuke of Pace
- Lawmakers of both parties criticized Pace's remarks
- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.
-- “We don't need moral judgment from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs."
- Sen. John Warner, one of Congress' most respected authorities on military matters
said,
-- "I respectfully but strongly disagree with chairman's view that
homosexuality is immoral."
- Also chastising Pace was Rep. Martin Meehan
-- Has introduced legislation repealing the policy
- White House spokesman Tony Snow said
-- President Bush "has always said the most important thing is we ought not
to prejudge one another.
-- When it comes to government policy, it's been in place a long time
-- We will continue to execute it according to the letter of the law."
- Presidential contender Sen. John McCain, said
-- Pace "should be given a chance to explain himself."
-- Asked for his own view on homosexuality in the military, McCain said
> He believes "don't ask, don't tell" policy is "successful
* Should be maintained."
- Two gay advocacy groups strongly condemned Pace's remarks.
-- "General Pace's comments are
* Outrageous
* Insensitive
* Disrespectful t
> To 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces,"
> Said Service members Legal Defense Network
- "Don't ask, don't tell" was passed by Congress after a firestorm of debate
-- Argued allowing homosexuals to serve openly would hurt:
* Troop morale and recruitment
* Undermine cohesion of combat units.
Thomas
At the moment, I am ashamed toward the behavior of our congressional leaders, but still respectful of their position and authority; just as General Pace is. General Pace appears to be an honorable Marine. Currently, he is serving as the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff for the armed forces, and is taking a lot of heat for making a proper and valid statement. If you have never observed a true Marine in action, just watch this man. General Pace is fighting like a true warrior. The best characteristic of a warrior is "Moral fortitude." If General Pace can't stand-up to friendly foes for being right, how can we expect him to stand-up to unfriendly foes as the Chairman of the Joint Chief of Staff. You gooooooooooo General!!!!!!!
No Apology From Gen. Pace for Gay Stance
- Pentagon's top general should not have voiced personal view homosexuality is
immoral
-- Should have stated support for military's "don't ask, don't tell" policy
in an interview that has drawn criticism from lawmakers and gay-rights
groups
- Written statement by Gen. Peter Pace did not apologize for stance on
homosexuality
- Pace likened homosexual acts to adultery and said military should not condone it
-- By allowing gays to serve openly in armed forces
- Pace issued statement acknowledging Defense Department's "don't ask, don't tell"
policy on gays is a sensitive subject
-- Should have focused on my support of policy and less on personal moral views
- Defense Secretary Robert Gates declined to answer a question on his opinion of
policy
-- Made a mild rebuke of Pace
- Lawmakers of both parties criticized Pace's remarks
- House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif.
-- “We don't need moral judgment from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs."
- Sen. John Warner, one of Congress' most respected authorities on military matters
said,
-- "I respectfully but strongly disagree with chairman's view that
homosexuality is immoral."
- Also chastising Pace was Rep. Martin Meehan
-- Has introduced legislation repealing the policy
- White House spokesman Tony Snow said
-- President Bush "has always said the most important thing is we ought not
to prejudge one another.
-- When it comes to government policy, it's been in place a long time
-- We will continue to execute it according to the letter of the law."
- Presidential contender Sen. John McCain, said
-- Pace "should be given a chance to explain himself."
-- Asked for his own view on homosexuality in the military, McCain said
> He believes "don't ask, don't tell" policy is "successful
* Should be maintained."
- Two gay advocacy groups strongly condemned Pace's remarks.
-- "General Pace's comments are
* Outrageous
* Insensitive
* Disrespectful t
> To 65,000 lesbian and gay troops now serving in our armed forces,"
> Said Service members Legal Defense Network
- "Don't ask, don't tell" was passed by Congress after a firestorm of debate
-- Argued allowing homosexuals to serve openly would hurt:
* Troop morale and recruitment
* Undermine cohesion of combat units.
Thomas
# posted by Thomas @ 4:11 PM 
Comments:
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In ancient Greece, there was an all male, all gay military unit called the Sacred Band of Thebes. The unit was specifically set up for those men who were hmosexual and fought alongside their mates. They were one of the most ferocious and successful units in Greek history. The idea behind it was, they would fight much more emphatically when their lovers were alongside them...and was pretty much true. Now, I personally believe that homosexuality is a sin, but I also realize that we all sin, and to God...a sin is a sin is a sin...no one is any worse than another. I was just wondering what would happen if there was an all homosexual unit in the military...would they be more comfortable with each other? would they fight harder?
Hello Samuel,
You make a very valid point, "I realize that we all sin, and to God...a sin is a sin is a sin...no one is any worse than another."
Unfortunately, about two years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting Matthew Sheppard's mother during a speaking engagement held on campus. If you're not familiar with her, Matthew was a professed gay person that was beaten to death during a hate crime. Rightfully, so, his mother took the incident very hard. Also, since I've been a student here a MSU, I've heard another professed gay person speak to a class. It's ashamed that those people are experiencing what they're going through, but they're still people and should be treated as such.
Now, to attempt to answer your question, there may be some truth to the statement about a uniquely homosexual unit fighting harder. Nevertheless, an all homosexual unit in the military would perform better than an intermingled unit of heterosexuals and homosexuals.
See, the issue comes down to good order and discipline. Within a military unit, there may be occasions when a person has to forfeit a large degree of privacy. For instance, community showers, bathrooms and, or sleeping arrangements. Under those circumstances, how long do you expect good order and discipline would be maintained if males and females were intermingled; well, probably not long. It's basically, the same principle with heterosexual and homosexual personnel.
In a situation where heterosexual have awareness that a homosexual is present under conditions of limited or restricted privacy, good order and discipline will probably go out the window very fast.
During my lifetime, I have been propositioned by a male twice, once at Age 15 and again at Age 20. Both times I politely declined to engage in such disgusting activity. Fortunately, on both occasions my polite declinations were understood loud and clear because my next move was to go into unrestricted combat; not out of hate for their gay lifestyle, but out of fear for my right to be a heterosexual person being violated.
Thomas
You make a very valid point, "I realize that we all sin, and to God...a sin is a sin is a sin...no one is any worse than another."
Unfortunately, about two years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting Matthew Sheppard's mother during a speaking engagement held on campus. If you're not familiar with her, Matthew was a professed gay person that was beaten to death during a hate crime. Rightfully, so, his mother took the incident very hard. Also, since I've been a student here a MSU, I've heard another professed gay person speak to a class. It's ashamed that those people are experiencing what they're going through, but they're still people and should be treated as such.
Now, to attempt to answer your question, there may be some truth to the statement about a uniquely homosexual unit fighting harder. Nevertheless, an all homosexual unit in the military would perform better than an intermingled unit of heterosexuals and homosexuals.
See, the issue comes down to good order and discipline. Within a military unit, there may be occasions when a person has to forfeit a large degree of privacy. For instance, community showers, bathrooms and, or sleeping arrangements. Under those circumstances, how long do you expect good order and discipline would be maintained if males and females were intermingled; well, probably not long. It's basically, the same principle with heterosexual and homosexual personnel.
In a situation where heterosexual have awareness that a homosexual is present under conditions of limited or restricted privacy, good order and discipline will probably go out the window very fast.
During my lifetime, I have been propositioned by a male twice, once at Age 15 and again at Age 20. Both times I politely declined to engage in such disgusting activity. Fortunately, on both occasions my polite declinations were understood loud and clear because my next move was to go into unrestricted combat; not out of hate for their gay lifestyle, but out of fear for my right to be a heterosexual person being violated.
Thomas
Thomas, Samuel,
The two of you have obviously have not spend ANY time in the military. I have. I am a decorated combat veteran who spent eight years of his life in the United States Marine Corps. I also happen to be "GAY"! So on the issues of "order and discipline",living accommodations, women in the military, I know of what I speak.
If you would like to continue this dialogue,would you mind sharing a little information about yourself in terms of your age, education/military background,religious affiliation?
Michael
USMC(ret)
The two of you have obviously have not spend ANY time in the military. I have. I am a decorated combat veteran who spent eight years of his life in the United States Marine Corps. I also happen to be "GAY"! So on the issues of "order and discipline",living accommodations, women in the military, I know of what I speak.
If you would like to continue this dialogue,would you mind sharing a little information about yourself in terms of your age, education/military background,religious affiliation?
Michael
USMC(ret)
# posted by 
: 4:37 AM
: 4:37 AM
This blog is getting a little heated. But I would like to say that I don't think having a homosexual unit would make anyone fight harder. I personally would NoT want the United States to be represented by such a group. But I would also like to say that they should leave the don't ask don't tell idea alone. Just because they are homosexuals doesn't mean they would be sexual predators in a mostly heterosexual unit. They know their job is just the same as the other men and would not let anything interfere.
# posted by : 1:15 PM
: 1:15 PM
Hello anonymous Michael,
I don't mind continuing this dialogue, but at the moment I fail comprehend how your request for sharing a little information about ourselves in terms of our age, education/military background,
religious affiliation would make any differences. The context of this dialogue speaks for itself. On the other hand, if you would like to continue this dialogue, you're more than welcome to share more about yourself.
Thomas
I don't mind continuing this dialogue, but at the moment I fail comprehend how your request for sharing a little information about ourselves in terms of our age, education/military background,
religious affiliation would make any differences. The context of this dialogue speaks for itself. On the other hand, if you would like to continue this dialogue, you're more than welcome to share more about yourself.
Thomas
Well I don't have any combat experience per se(unless you count those times my brothers and sister and I threw down)...but as I understand it, you enter the military and are trained, basically. You are then assigned jobs suited to your abilities. There are people of varying ranks whom you may command or that may give you commands. When an order is given, it is usually followed. You can be discharged from said military in a variety of ways including honorably, dishonorably, or generically. All of these men (and women) serve at the ultimate orders of the President, as he is elected supreme commander and chief of the armed forces.
There are also several branches of the military, which provide a specialized service and aid in each others' mission(s). Honor, service, and justice for their people are all very important to those who serve.
You also get to carry a gun.
I left some things out...but this is the gist of what I understand about the military.
My statement earlier was merely to point out that some cultures have embraced the openness of homosexuals in their military. Something that I have no problem with whatsoever. I added the statement about my beliefs about homesexuality, well, because I can. I was excercising my right to free speech, which as I understand it is something that the military is "over there" fighting for.
There are also several branches of the military, which provide a specialized service and aid in each others' mission(s). Honor, service, and justice for their people are all very important to those who serve.
You also get to carry a gun.
I left some things out...but this is the gist of what I understand about the military.
My statement earlier was merely to point out that some cultures have embraced the openness of homosexuals in their military. Something that I have no problem with whatsoever. I added the statement about my beliefs about homesexuality, well, because I can. I was excercising my right to free speech, which as I understand it is something that the military is "over there" fighting for.
Well i don't have any military experience but i know people who do. They say to me they would feel uncomfortable knowing if they were gay. They would rather not know and just would want to fight as one unit.
I feel that he might have stood up for what he believed but sometimes authority should keep their mouth shut! The military should be ONE not seperated!
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